14 September 2009

Nairobi — Despite the ongoing tensions in the region, President Paul Kagame sees a secure and peaceful East Africa and Africa in general thanks to ongoing efforts at economic integration.

And Kenyan politicians will need to display a higher degree of leadership and sense of ownership if the country is to pull back from the brink of self-destruction.

In a wide ranging interview with The EastAfrican, the Rwandan President argues it is not bullets and regional military formations that will bring enduring security to the region but aggregation of common interests across the region that will bring peace and stability.

"Security is not about guns. It is about the sentiments, the attitude, the benefit you get from the other and what he gets from you. Once you allow that to happen, work becomes easier," he says.

Making reference to the blood relations that cut across national borders in the region and official efforts at achieving regional integration, Kagame says while political leaders matter because they wield authority, it is important to find a point of convergence between the interests and hopes of the ordinary people for the process to pick up momentum.

Says he: "At times, even when there are issues between countries, like we have had for a long time with the DRC, ordinary people will still use informal panya [illicit] routes, they will trade with and visit each other. Even if you sent an army to stop them they will still do it because, for them, it is their life. I think they just fall short of saying, 'I don't know what these stupid leaders are doing.' Maybe they don't express it out of good manners, but this is what must be going on in their minds."

On the post-election violence that rocked Kenya and the ongoing debate over whether to try its suspected perpetrators at the International Criminal Court in the Hague or in a local tribunal, he advises caution.

"When I read about the International Criminal Court being used as a stick to whip people into line.... In the world where I come from, I would avoid that because it can be counterproductive. In our [Rwanda's] case, for example, if we had to strictly say, 'You did wrong, you must answer for it like this,' rigidly, we would not be where we are today," says the Rwandan leader.

"If we were to try everybody who was involved in the genocide and sentence them to hang, well, legally, it would be correct. Morally, it would sound good to hang everybody who was involved in killing people.

But realistically, we couldn't do that. Not that we don't understand the importance of justice, but ... we understood it to be the price we had to pay for a stable future.

"So there is a tricky, very complex balance between holding people accountable and therefore dealing with the question of impunity, and forging stability by way of a politics that is not always black and white -- you kill us, we kill you, you do this, we do that. This is the delicate balancing act we have had to go through."

President Kagame further says leadership has to start showing up among Kenyans so that they can work towards owning their problem. He says even if a semblance of stability came out of the international pressure as has been exerted on President Mwai Kibaki and Prime Minister Raila Odinga, the results would be temporary.

So the political class need to show some leadership among themselves to make some of these sacrifices of give and take and own the problem, and not only deal with some of these superficial things," he says, arguing that the December 2007 elections just helped some problems that had been "in the mind" to surface and some people were using them to express other grievances.

Kagame also sees the uneasy relations with Rwanda's former godfather France thawing, saying: "A lot of things have happened and there has been easing of the bad relationship we had with France. I don't want to say much, I don't want to sound like I am pre-empting anything, but from the way they are progressing I think things are going to get better once we are done with these cases. We are sure moving in a positive direction."

Regarding the infrastructure deficiencies the region suffers in key areas such as transport, the President said there is an ongoing dialogue at the highest levels to take a regional approach to these problems.

"We have been working with the Tanzanians; we have worked with the Ugandans and, by extension, the Kenyans. We have been working closely with the Congolese and the people from Burundi on trying to develop a railway network. Every other day, we keep reminding ourselves of how important this is and how much difference it can make."

Looking forward at the political succession in Rwanda and in the wider African context, Kagame says: "It is important for East Africans, not just Rwandans, that we achieve stability to that level where succession should not be a problem. We should reach that level sooner rather than later.

"In my position, I think that can be obtained in this country where we can see leaders change hands without causing instability. I think that would be a gift from God and those of us who have played leadership roles of one kind or another."

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